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to the English Local Government Board requirements and therefore the only fear that I would have would be that the open space of 101 foot would be insufficient. Native landlords have told me before now that the Chinese tenant does not require light or ventilation. With all respect, I submit that that is nonsense. I should say the native tenant requires and appreciates light and ventilation quite as much as his landlord. At the present moment in a great many native tenements if the tenant wishes to breathe unpolluted air, he has to go outside into the street, and if he wishes to see he has to burn lights throughout the day. Some of the tenements I have seen as dark as Erebus even at noonday. That, it must be admitted, is a most unsatisfactory state of things, and it is gratifying to think that if hon. members will support the clauses which relate to the provision of adequate space around buildings, we may find in this Bill a remedy for so grave an evil.
I am told, again, that some of the building lots in this town have been divided into sections and subsections, so small as not to admit of backyards ten feet wide. That may be so or may not be so. I must confess that I know several lots and sections of lots myself, where, possibly, backyards might not be admissible. All I can say, with regard to properties of this kind is that if they are so shallow as not to admit of a backyard for the purposes of light and ventilation, then they are manifestly unfit for human habitation, though they may, perhaps be utilised for shops or workshops, or for industrial or commercial purposes, or in fact, for any purpose other than that of human habitation.
There is one more matter in this Bill which I shall refer to very briefly. It is perhaps the crux of the Bill. I mean the clauses which relate to overcrowding. The Bill seeks to make overcrowding a misdemeanour. That proposal is perhaps at first sight a startling one. We will be asked "Where do you propose to house the surplus population, which you propose to turn out of doors?" The question would be a very natural one to make, and unquestionably the reply will be "More houses must be built." It is only right to mention that concurrently with these legislative enactments against overcrowding the Government propose to submit to the Legislature at once certain extensive building schemes in the outskirts of the city.
But it will be obvious to hon. members that even if there were 10,000 empty houses at the outskirts awaiting occupation, it is not likely the Chinese would leave the central portions of the city to go and inhabit them unless some provision, in the nature of these clauses, made overcrowding a misdemeanour. Unless these clauses are passed as part and parcel of this Bill it will be impossible to get the population to leave the congested districts and go to the outskirts. The object of the Bill is, if I may use a mathematical term, centrifugal. It seeks to relieve the congested centre of the town by sending the surplus population to the circumference or to the outskirts.
It may be urged that a working man will not readily leave a home near his work and make a distant foot journey every morning and evening from and to his work, and that therefore there will be a great difficulty at the outset in getting new building lots outside the town taken up and built on. But the Government has wisely made provision for this contingency, and it is intended in conjunction with the passing of this Bill to propose the construction of tramways to bring the outskirts of the town into cheap and rapid communication with the centre.
With regard to the other miscellaneous provisions of this very long Bill which are of a less contentious nature, I shall not at this stage take up the time of the Council with any further remarks. I will only say, in conclusion, I am confident that when hon. members digest this Bill, they will find it is nothing more than a reproduction, however imperfect, of the Health Law of England, watered and diluted so as to meet the peculiar conditions of Hongkong. And they will not fail to notice another thing, and that is that this measure is characterised by a manifest desire to press as little as possible on private interests.
They will find that the measure, so far from being arbitrary or harsh, has been so tempered as to be—well, I was going to say brought to the very verge of inefficiency from sheer weakness—but, perhaps, that is too disparaging an expression to use. The Sanitary Board in the drafting of this measure and the Government in its approval of it have been animated by a wish to proceed tentatively and both have gone on the principle that half a loaf is better than no bread.
I agree with my hon. and learned friend in thinking it is possible there may be imperfections found in this Bill, but I think it will also be possible that in Committee such imperfections if found may be remedied. I beg to second the motion of my hon. and learned friend.
HIS EXCELLENCY—Hon. gentlemen, after the very exhaustive statements which have been made, there is very little for me to say, but I do not wish we should separate to-day without my saying a few words on this subject. First of all, I would endorse what the last hon. gentleman who spoke told us, that the very greatest consideration had been shown to the interests of private individuals by this Government. That has always, I think, characterised the way that this Government tries to act, because we believe that public prosperity is merely the greatest aggregate amount of individual well-being and prosperity.
I can also thoroughly endorse what the hon. gentleman the Acting Attorney-General has told us with regard to the evils that exist in our midst. I have myself inspected some of the native parts of the town—I am told not the very worst parts—and I have also inspected several of the villages, and from having been military sanitary commissioner in various places, I can affirm most decidedly that I have never in all my life seen such a condition of things as exists in this City of Victoria and in the villages around us. Anything worse I have never seen in India or anywhere else.
I therefore think this is a most urgent question, which should be disposed of as soon as possible, that is, with all due regard to time being given for the thorough ventilation of the subject, and for its consideration not only by ourselves but the public at large. I think, speaking for myself, that we should further consider this Bill in a month's time. I think the urgency of the question lies in the fact that we cannot go on with any of the great public improvements until this matter is settled.
The hon. Surveyor-General has told us that he is endeavouring to find outlets in various directions for the surplus population. I may tell you that a large scheme for further reclamation at Causeway Bay has been before the Executive Council, and as soon as this scheme has been revised and printed it will be laid on this table. It will first of all be sent to the Public Works Committee.
Well, hon. gentlemen, what is the use of considering that, and also the Praya scheme—which will form, of course, the connection between this part of the town and Causeway Bay, and without which we can hardly expect this tramway—what is the use of considering this scheme until we have considered and passed, as I hope we shall, this Ordinance? I was myself most particularly anxious, during the recess, of working in the direction of getting this Praya scheme settled. I believe it to be a work of primary importance.
Therefore it was my anxious desire to write to the authorities at home, and try and get them to understand the urgent need for its sanction. I rather differ from the hon. gentleman who, in addressing some questions to me the other day on the defences, said that the home authorities were rather chary in allowing us to spend our own money. I think that we have only to show we are in earnest on any subject, and mean what we say, and we shall be allowed to spend our own money as we like. But we must show we are in earnest, and I think hon. gentlemen we must show we are in earnest in this matter.
It is a matter that must be disposed of, but, as I said before, with all due consideration to private interests. I don't think I need take up your time longer, and the subject has been so thoroughly handled that I have really nothing left to say. I intended only to have spoken on the question of urgency, and I hope you will consider the matter.
The motion was carried nem. con. and the Bill was read a first time.
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to the English Local Government Board re- quirements and therefore the only fear that I would have would be that the open space of 101 foot would be insaficent. Native landlord: hare told me before now that the Chinese teuant does not require light or ventilation. With all respect, I submit that that is nonsense. I shonid say the native tenant requires and appreciates light and ventilation quite as much as his land. lord. At the prosent moment in a great many native tenements if the tenant wishes to breathe unpolluted air, he has to go outside into the street, and if he wishes to see he has to burn lights throughout the day. Some of the tene- ments I have seen as dark as Erebus even
at noonday. That, it must be admitted, is a Imost unsatisfactory state of things, and it is gratifying to think that if hon. members will support the clauses which relate to the provi- sion of adequate space around buildings, we may find in this Bill a remedy for so grave an evil. I am told, again, that some of the build- ing lots in this town have been divi- dod into sections and subsection, so small as not to admit of backyards ten feet wide. That may be so or may not be so. I must confess that I know several lots and sentions of Jots myself, where, possibly, backyards might not ba admissible. All I can say, with regard to pro- perties of this kind is that if they are so shallow as not to admit of a backyard for the purposes of light and ventilation, then they are mani- fostly unfit for buman habitation, though they may, perhaps be utilised for shops or workshops, or for industrial or commercial purposes, or in fact, for any purpose other than that of human habitation. There is one more matter in this Bill which I shall refer to vary briefly. It is perhaps the cruz of the Bill. I mean the elauses which relate to overcrowding. The Bill seeks to make over. crowding a misdemeanour. That proposal is perhaps at first sight a startling one. Wo will be asked "Where do you propose to house the surplus population, which you propose to turn out of doors?" The question would be a very natural one to make, and unquestionably the reply will be "More houses must be built." It is only right to mention that concurrent- ly with these legislative enactments against | overcrowding the Government propose to sub- mit to the Legislature at once certain extensive building schemes in the outskirts of the city. But it will be obvious to hon, members that even if there were 10,000 empty houses at the outskirts awaiting occupation, it is not likely the Chinese would leave the central portions of the city to go and inhabit them unless some provi- sion, in the nature of these clauses, made over- erowding a misdemeanour. Unless these olauses are passed as part and parcel of this Bill it will be impossible to get the population to leave the congested districts and go to the outskirts. The object of the Bill is, if I may use a mathematical term, centrifugal. It seeks to relieve the con- gested centre of the towu by sending the surplus population to the circumference or to the out- skirts. It may be urged that a working mat will not readily leave a home near his work! and make a distant foot journey every morning | and evening from and to his work, and that therefore there will be a great difficulty at the outset in getting new building lots outside the town taken up and built on. But the Go- vernment has wisely made provision for this con- tingency, and it is intended in conjunction with the passing of this Bill to propose the coastr 10- tion of tramways to bring the outskirts of the town into cheap and rapid communication with the centro. With regard to the other misc-l- lanoous provisions of this very long Bill which are of a less contentious nature. I shall not at this stage take up the time of the Conacil with any further remarks. I will only say, in con. clusion, I am confident that when hou. members ligest this Bill, they will find it is nothing more thau a reproduction, however imperfect, of the Health Law of England, watered and diluted so as to meet the peculiar conditions of Hongkong. And they will not fail to notice another thing, and that is that this measure is characterised by a manifest desire to press as little as possible ok private interests. They will find that the! measure, so far from being arbitrary or harsh,
has been so tempored as to be-well, I was going to say brought to the very vergo of in- efficiency from sheer wildness-but, perhaps, that is too disparaging an expression to use. The Sauitary Board in the drafting of this measure and the Government in its approval of it have been animated by a wish to proceed tenta- tively and both have gone on the principle that half a loaf is better than no bread
I agree with my hon. and learned friend in thinking it is possible there may be imperfections found in this Bill, but I think it will also be possible that in Committee such imperfections if found may be remedied. I beg to second the motion of my hon. and learned freind.
BIS EXCELLENCY-Hon. gentlemen, after the very exhaustive statements which have been mado, there is very little for me to say, but I do not wish we should separate to-day without my saying a few words on this subject. First of all, I would endorse what the last hon. gentle- man who spoke told us, that the very greatest consideration had been shown to the interests of private individuals by this Government. That has always, I think, characterised the way that this Government tries to act, because we believe that public prosperity is merely the greatest ag. grerate amount of individual well-being and prosperity. I can also thorough'y endorse what the hon. gentleman the Acting Attorney-Gene ral has told us with regard to the evils that exist in our midst. I have myself inspected some of the native parts of the town-I am told not the very worst parts--and I have also inspect- ed several of the villages, and from having been military sanitary commissioner in various places, I eau affirm most decidedly that I have never in all my life seen such a condition of things as exists in this City of Victoria and in the villages around us. Anything worse I have never seen in India or anywhere else. I therefore think this is a most urgent question, which should be disposed of as soon as possible, that is, with all due regard to time being given for the thorongh ventilation of the subject, and for its considera- tion not only by ourselves but the public at large. I think, speaking for myself, that we should further consider this Bill in a month's time. I think the urgency of the question lies in the fact that we cannot go ou with any of the great pub- lie improvements until this matter is settled. The hon. Surveyor-General has told us that be is endeavouring to find outlets in various direc- tions for the surplus population I may tell you that a large scheme for further reclamation at Causeway Bay has been before the Executive Council, and as soon as this scheme has been revised and printed it will be laid on this table. It will first of all be sent to the Public Works Committee. Well, hon. gentlemen, what is the use of considering that, and also the Praya scheme! -which will form, of course, the connection between this part of the town and Causeway Bay, and without which we can hardly expect this tramway--what is the use of considering this scheme until we have considered and passed, as I hope we shall. this Ordinance? I was my- self most particularly anxious, during the recess, of working in the direction of getting this Praya scheme settled. I believe it to be a work of primary importance. Therefore it was my auxious desire to write to the authorities at home, and try and get them to understand the urgent need for its sanction I rather differ from the hon. gen. tleman who, in addressing some questions to me the other day on the defences, said that the home authorities were rather chary in allowing us to spend our Own money. I think that we have only to show we are in ear- nest un any subject, and mean what we say, and we shall be allowed to spend our own money as we like. But we must show we are in earnest, and I think hon. gentlemen we must show we are in earnest in this matter. It is a matter that must be disposed of, but, as l said before, with all due consideration to pri- vate interests. I don't think I need take up your time longer, and the subject has been so thoroughly handled that I have really nothing left to say. I intended only to have spokes on the question of urgency, and I hope you will consider the matter.
The motion was carried wem, con. and the Bill wus, read a first time.
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